Drawing The Line When It Comes To
Safety Of Players
COMMENTS FROM OUR READERS
Tim Gmeinweser appealed the decision to Hockey
Alberta and lost his appeal. He will remain suspended for the
remainder of the 2002-2003 season.
Tim Gmeinweser voices his opinion on this situation and gives
everyone a first hand description on what actually happened during the
game in question. Click here
for more>>>
We thank all of the following readers who have taken the
time to send in their comments. Please be advised that the comments are
shown in reverse order from when they were received. For example, the
comment which has been received most recently is the first one you will
read. The last comment in the list is one of the first comments that were received.
After The Whistle would like to hear your comments on this issue. CONTACT
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I am the Trainer / Safety person for my Atom level team.
I had to take a day-long course on how to look out for the safety of my
team. Recently, we played a game where the Referee didn't show up,
which I didn't notice until a couple minutes into the game. The
linesman, who were not trained or empowered to give penalties, never
called a penalty for the whole game. We were playing a team much
bigger and stronger than us, and this team began to take liberties with
their sticks and elbows, with no consequence. I began
to consider pulling the team, not knowing of this consequence.
I think it is a stupid rule to suspend a coach who is looking out for the
safety of his players. What is being communicated by the CHA
is that it is more important to finish a game than it is if a player gets
hurt, seriously hurt or even killed. It makes me want to applaud the
lawsuits when they come, because we deserve it for having such a stupid
rule such as this. It should be considered on a case by case basis,
rather than a flat one size
fits all kind of rule. David Ernst
What about the Coach of the
team that is allowing his players to run the opposition. Does he not have
the responsibility to teach fair play? He should be held responsible for
not adhering to the "fair play" policy. But alas he won't be
suspended. Minor hockey has become a joke, and it is at the top levels of
administration. Grant Fecho
Publisher's Comment: The problem of how to curb excessive
physical play on the ice has been with us for a long time. The issue
which must now be addressed is how can the responsibility for the
safety of the players be shared among the people who are directly
responsible for this safety. The referee and the two coaches are the
ones who ultimately must decide. Right now, the rules are quite
clear. Once a game begins, it takes something pretty big to stop a
contest. A referee who stops a contest for unnecessary roughness
will have to face his supervisor to answer a lot of questions. A
coach who refuses to continue playing will be suspended. There has
to be a policy put in place which allows a game to be stopped, or at
least suspended pending a ruling. Perhaps one coach can initiate the
discussion by calling a time out to meet with the referee, linesmen
and the other coach. Both coaches can have their say and the referee
and linesmen will take a vote on the matter. Perhaps it should be up
to the team which is losing to make the call to forfeit the game.
Regardless of what is decided, right now it is not fair to place the
responsibility directly on the shoulders of the referee alone. In
many of these contests which get out of control, it is through no
fault of the referee. Your comments will be appreciated.
I would like to know where Mr. Shaw got his information he used in
his letter to the editor, his quote was as follows.
"Why did the Edmonton parents and coaches allow
their low level Bantam team - Tier 5 or 6 in Edmonton to enter a
tournament hosted by a team traditionally equivalent to a Tier 2
or 3 team"?
Mr. Shaw, the team entered into the tournament in Tier 6, not into tier
2 or 3. There were 7 tiers in the tournament, Coach Gmeinweser
entered his team into the same level he had played up to that point in
the season. The opposition for Mr. Gmeinweser's team requested to
go into as high a tier as possible! The New Sarepta team
never played any exhibition games before entering the Edmonton
tournament and the organizing committee was just following New Sarepta's
request.
Your statement that the lack of attention to the safety of their kids
began before they even left home to play this game is unfounded. Before
you make a statement like this next time, I hope you would have more
facts!! Thanks, Rod McMahon
K of C Sabres Bantam Director.
Editor's Note: Tier 1 is the level at which
the highest calibre teams play. Therefore, with seven different
levels of competition, it is difficult to determine where a team
should be placed. Since the New Sarepta club may not have anything
to which to compare its calibre, the coach may have simply asked
to enter the lowest division possible in order to avoid running
into the same situation as Mr. Gmeinweser found himself. Once the
game begins, it is too late to stop the competition, however, the
safety factor certainly does come into play and it is clear that
Mr. Gmeinweser chose to take a course of action which he felt best
at the time under the circumstances.
Hello,
I have a son in minor hockey now. in the event I witnessed
escalating violence in a game, I would not hesitate to pull my son from
the ice, and encourage other parents to do likewise. For the record, my
son has very good coaches who both love the game and respect the children.
They encourage excellent skill development while respecting fair and
balanced play.
BUT IN REGARDS TO THE GEMEINWESSER CASE, I VOTE FOR HIM PULLING
HIS TEAM OFF THE ICE.
AS WELL, I VOTE FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE OTHER TEAM'S
COACH TO DETERMINE IF HE ENCOURAGES VIOLENCE ON THE ICE. ANYONE
WHO FEELS THAT HOCKEY PLAYERS AND COACHES NEED NOT CONCERN THEMSELVES
WITH THIS ISSUE, NEED ONLY TO BRIEFLY READ THE CRIMINAL CODE OF CANADA.
IN THE HOPE OF RESOLVING THIS ISSUE, I WILL PERSONALLY
EXPLORE IT IN DEPTH TO DETERMINE IF SOME MINOR HOCKEY LEAGUE COACHES
CAN ON OCCASION BE IN VIOLATION OF THE CRIMINAL CODE IN THEIR
COACHING PRACTICES BOTH DURING PRACTICES AND GAMES.
Again, suspending this coach was A huge mistake. This poor
judgment has set in motion much activity and publicity that
"Canada's Game" certainly does not need. BUT I FEEL AS A PARENT
OF A SON AND A DAUGHTER WHO PLAY HOCKEY, THE TIME FOR ARMCHAIR DEBATING IS
OVER. IT IS TIME TO ACT!
Respectfully,
A VERY VERY CONCERNED HOCKEY PARENT
As a hockey parent I know what the
risks are with hockey. I know that in PeeWee there is body contact. I
know that they will be looking at the Atom level for body contact. I
also know that I support body contact at all levels like Mr. Gretzky.
You need to teach these kids early on how to take a hit and how to give
a hit. Its called safety management.
Having said this I totally agree with the
Coachs decision to pull the team. Enough is enough. I know a few teams
that have played against New Serepta and those that were at the game
watching and said the same thing that team took it to the extreme and
the Referees lost control.
Edmonton Minor Hockey said only the Referees
can call a game and only parents can pull there children off the ice.
Well they must not read the rule book. How
are we parents to get to the Coach to tell him we want our child pulled
from the game. We can't the minute we tough the glass we are looking at
being thrown out of the arena.
....and if they think the referees are going
to call a game that is a joke. Most of these ref's are kids and do you
think they would make it to their cars to go home after calling a game.
There are a lot of scary parents out there.
The team was losing, they still would have
lost. But lets not sacrifice a child for a win.
Darlene Balzer
I read your article on Gmeinweser pulling
his team from the ice. It is imperative that a coach protect his
players in all situations. No matter how you accomplish the
pulling of players from the ice, it is the right thing to do when a game
is out of hand. I would not want to see my son or any one else
injured, as a result of a minor hockey league game that is meant to be
fun.
My hat is off to Mr. Gmeinweser and I hope
that his action will not affect his ability to continue coaching.
It takes great courage to stand up for what is right, and clearly what
he did is right.
How can rules be set up to take away the
rights of children to show up at the rink and be safe. Mr. Orr and
Mr. Bossy were here in St. Albert last year and sent a clear message
along with their sponsor Chevrolet, 'Safe and Fun Hockey'.
When are we all going to get it. Our
kids show up at the rink to have fun, and in the process shouldn't we
make it safe so they want to go back? We need to change rules to
favor the participants in hockey, not the organization they belong to.
Ted Durham, St. Albert
In Coaches WE TRUST! I am a parent of a minor hockey Pee Wee player in the City of Edmonton
and I support any coaches decision to place the interest of his kids ahead
of the interest of his own personal jeopardy and the "outcome of a
game". I have seen coaches in the past who would not make that
decision and I would far prefer a coach who is concerned about his players
first and foremost than having someone who doesn't. That having been
said, I also agree that rules be put in place to prevent abuse of the
system and that all of us need to strive to improve hockey. It is
perhaps "not fair" that this coach was suspended for the rest of
the season but he made a decision knowing full well the risk he was taking
and can get up in the mornings smiling because he believes he made the
right choice. Those parents, the Sabres and this coach need to now
put their focus on working together to come up with solutions to prevent
this from happening again and put their energies into ideas.
All of us has the right, ability and voice to make positive changes and
it is far too easy to talk the talk, we all have to walk the walk as
well!!!
N. Majek
I am not involved in hockey, but my 4
children play soccer (outdoor and indoor), my husband coaches
house-league and club soccer and I am on the soccer board.
I cannot believe that the associations for Edmonton
Hockey and Canadian Hockey do not support the coach in this matter.
From what I have read, everyone agrees
that the coach did not pull the team off the ice because they were
losing. Isn't that the main reason for the rule of suspension?
It has been said that the parents were
out of control and stirring things up. If that's true, wasn't it
just a matter of time before the players got out of control?
Players were already getting hurt.
On the hockey website, 'Relax It's Just
a Game' the very first paragraph and item is as follows:
Respect
The Game The Canadian Hockey Association asks you to consider your role in
showing "Respect" for the game, and for the people who
make this the great game it is. How much do you RESPECT the game
of hockey and all its participants? Take this simple test to see
how you rate.
Check off the statements that apply to you.
The
safety of the participants in the game is more important than the
final score.
How can you punish a coach who followed
rule #1 - in putting the safety of the players before
the score?
Further on, this is stated:
10 Ways To Become A Good Hockey Parent
Get involved with your son Make safety, respect, fair play and fun a
priority.
Do you or do you not believe that
"Safety of Players" is first and foremost?
It has been said that the coach
overreacted. Isn't it better to err on the side of caution or
should he have waited for a bench clearing brawl? Then the
damage is done and it's too late. He was trying to save the
players from getting hurt, not wait until they all got hurt.
This coach should be commended for his
spontaneous action and foresight. He did in fact put the safety
of his players first.
What is children sports coming to when an
adult cares for the kids, makes sure that nothing dangerous happens to
the kids and he is punished for it.
Do you really wonder why kids keep quiet
about abuse by coaches?
Debbie
I for one as a former hockey player and minor hockey coach
do support and agree that the coach did the right thing in view of the
situation.
Hockey is supposed to be a game and a sport based on skills especially
at that level so if the players stand to be injured by the type of play
that is going on then the coach was correct in pulling his team. The
fact that none of the players had yet suffered any severe injury should
have no bearing. Does a player have to become paralysed before a
coach should feel entitled to pull his team off the ice for their safety.
Remember the game is supposed to be fun for all players on the ice and
not just the winning team as in this case. I applaud the coach for
his actions as I would have done exactly the same thing under the
circumstances.
For the love of the game, A. Pascal
I am the parent of a minor hockey player in Edmonton.
When our children play a minor hockey game, we parents give the coach
and officials a sacred trust: we give them our children.
During games in Edmonton, parents often have no way to communicate with
the players, the coaches, or the officials. They are likely
separated by the ice surface with the only building access being through a
locked dressing room. Therefore we parents must trust the coaches
and officials to act for us in our absence.
In my years as a hockey parent, I have watched many games where the
referees have taken good care to keep the play safe. I have also
watched many games where the referees have failed to notice an injured
young player collapsed on the ice, immobilized while play continues around
them.
In Edmonton's minor hockey games, it seems two officials are required
on the ice. In practice, sometimes only one referee is present.
Yet even with two officials on the ice, it must be very difficult for the
referees to observe everything that happens during a game. If they
miss an offside call or a two-line pass, we might not like it, and some
parents or coaches might get really loud about it, but we accept it, and
no real harm is done.
But if the officials don't see a child's head slam into a goalpost, or
a child's leg get sliced open by someone's skate, or if the officials
don't call penalties for dangerous behaviour, those officials are acting
irresponsibly.
If the referees do not listen to the coaches who express their concern
and frustration about dangerous play, they are acting even more
irresponsibly.
And what can the parents, coaches, and young players do when harm is
occurring and the officials do not act?
During an Edmonton minor hockey game, the answer is: Nothing.
Nothing, except what Mr. Gmeinweser did. He pulled his players
out of harm's way.
That is exactly what I would expect of a coach to whom I have entrusted
my child. This coach placed safety above anything else.
And now, because Hockey Alberta regulations say that any coach who
refuses to have his team play must automatically be suspended, Mr.
Gmeinweser and his players and their families are going to be punished.
Punished for doing the right thing.
Hockey Alberta needs to change the regulations and policy: player
safety must become absolutely paramount, not only in regulation but also
in action.
No child should be subject to harm because of a wrong-headed adherence
to a paper regulation.
It's time for Hockey Alberta and the Edmonton Minor Hockey Association
to do the right thing too. The safety of thousands of young hockey
players depends on it.
Concerned Hockey Parent
As the Bantam Director for the K of C Sabres hockey team
involved in this incident I would like to say that the entire executive of
the Sabres organization stands behind Tim in his decision to remove his
kids from this game. The safety of his kids was the only concern Tim had
at the time, not the suspension he may incur.
The EMHA has applied a suspension lasting till the end of this current
hockey season. In a message from the Discipline chair from the EMHA
he stated that Tim pulled his team off the ice because he was losing, this
is a joke. Simply stated, Tim did what was best for his team, safety
was an issue, if Tim had not pulled his kids at that stage the parents
would have done it! Every Sabre parent in attendance has written a
letter of support for Tim.
As an organization I ask our coach's to be responsible for the players
they coach, they attend the CHA sponsored Speak out Safety program where
they are taught to make sure the kids are in a safe environment at
practices, pre game & post game yet when something happens
during the game they are to let it go, the ref is always in charge. If the
situation gets out of control on the ice, as what happened here, is the
coach being negligent in letting his players continue to get hurt?
Hopefully something positive comes out of this, I do not advocate
coach's pulling their teams off the ice because they are losing badly or
they don't like the referees, but this incident was a safety issue.
Thanks, Rod McMahon
K of C Sabres Bantam Director.
I think, given the situation of a stronger physical team
which is clearly going to win, that I as a parent should pull my son off
the bench. The parent holds ultimate responsibility for his child's
safety. Personally I would not risk injury for the sake of one game.
Hopefully, if we can encourage better attitudes towards referees and their
responsibilities, I won't have to face this situation.
Thanks
All the opinions I've seen (or heard on the
radio) so far on this matter take the side of the Edmonton coach
who pulled out of the game- and maybe the coach was right but how do I
know? I wasn't at the game. I haven't heard New Sarepta's point of view.
I haven't heard the referee's point of view. In fact, I haven't heard
specifically what the Edmonton team's complaint or complaints were. Were
the kids a little unlucky in how they fell after a check? Were the New
Sarepta kids playing dirty- sticks in the groin and neck or were they
just bigger or stronger? I haven't heard that the New Sarepta team has a
bad reputation- do they? (They play in the 1660 league, I think and they
are #3 of 15 teams in PIM's - but only average 18 PIM's per game which
isn't extreme.) All these unanswered questions are why they have a
hearing on such an issue. They had a hearing and the coach was found in
the wrong.
But I do have a really key
question:
Why did the Edmonton
parents and coaches allow their low level Bantam team - Tier 5
or 6 in Edmonton to enter a tournament hosted by a team traditionally
equivalent to a Tier 2 or 3 team?
The lack of attention to the safety of their kids began before they even
left home to play this game.
After reading your article, I have a number of mixed
emotions about this topic. I feel that really it comes down to
coaching. We had a Peewee A game not so long ago, and a scruff
happened in the corner between two players, and the one coach was yelling
from the bench acknowledging to his player to finish what had started, and
the once again young refs did not call it. But in saying that the
coach did get a 3 game suspension.
I feel that a lot of coaches get too much freedom from their
organization, and if the team is winning then no one definitely wants to
say anything to the coach. The coaches who want to play as a team
with finesse and skill, are being forced to play a killing game because
some coaches are teaching their players to crash and bang, and wear them
down, and then to go and play the game after they have accomplished
their mission.
So it seems to me that maybe we should control and monitor our
coaches. Whether that be through our provincial hockey organizations
which in affect would affect our home organizations as a whole. I
feel that to many times coaches are put on the bench not because they
actually have the skills, but rather that they have the time.
Just because they take the coaches courses, does not mean they have the
ability to coach. I have also pleaded with our organization to have
someone whose job would be to assess the coaches, and treat like a
new job application. Maybe they need on the job training, and it
might take a lot of time but once this is complete maybe we would
have everyone in hockey with a common objective. For what its
worth I really think we have to make the coaches accountable, as they have
more influence over our kids than anyone.
Dixon Whitecourt
The following comment raises some serious questions with respect to
tournaments. After you read this comment, please read the article on
tournaments by clicking here >>>>
I am the parent of a Midget Goaltender who participated in a Christmas
tournament in New Sarepta. We had the same referee for three games. He
was consistently bad for all three games. I hope it was not the same
referee who was involved in the bantam tournament. If by chance it
was then that referee should be suspended forever. He was not consistent
in calling the play for either team and let our games get out of hand.
We won the first game and lost the last two. In the last game one of our
players was slashed with a two handed slash that broke his wrist. No
penalty! My son was repeatedly run by the other team and when he said
something to the referee , the referee , told him to keep his head up.
After about the 7 time my son lost his cool and fought back He slashed
the offending player with his goal stick, the referee did not see it no
penalty was called, the slashed player jumped my son from behind. My son
wrestled himself on top of the other player and started to punch him.
This resulted in a match penalty because my son had never been in a
fight before and did not know enough to remove his gloves in a fight. He
recieved a three game suspension from the Millwoods SEERA Hockey
association. He did deserve this and has served his suspension. If the
refereeing had not been so bad I feel that this horrible incident would
not have happened. By the way in the first game my son was given the
award for the player who "showed the most hussle and bustle''.
Hussle should be spelled hustle but was misspelled on his trophy. I
strongly feel the coach should have questioned the tournament organizer
about being given the same referee for all three games in a tournament
and requested an alternate for the third game. At the start of the game
I said out loud to a parent beside me " I wander if the referee is
going to take up where he left off in the last game?" The referee
heard me and looked right at us and said "yes"
I fight hard to keep from be-littling the referees as I referee seniors
and I know how hard it is . If I was as incompetent as this one was I
would hang up my skates.
Shelby
Dear Shelby:
Thank you for replying to the
afterthewhistle.com website with your experience with a
referee in your district. As both you and I know,
for the most part everyone involved in Minor Hockey has at
some point run into an inconsistent referee, a coach who is
not familiar with the game, a fan who constantly yells
obscenities, and players who are malicious to each other on
the ice. I'm certain that you are very proud of your
son's accomplishments and that the positive aspects of the
game have outweighed the negative otherwise your son would
probably have left the game long ago.
My goal for the website is to improve
the image of hockey. Most people have the misconception
that hockey is always an unfair, brutal sport. In order
to change this image, I am promoting the positive aspects of
the sport. If you could share with us some of the
positive experiences or accomplishments of your son and or his
team, I would gladly publish the story on the website.
Thank you again for expressing your
interest in www.afterthewhistle.com.
I look forward to reading about your son's positive
accomplishments and experiences.
